Obsidian Metadata
Why Use Gemini
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42952605
Summary
Key Takeaways
- Gemini’s Experience: Gemini 2.0 is praised for its ease of use, large context window, and multi-modal capability, allowing efficient extraction from varied document types including images and data-based PDFs.
- Data Extraction Shift: The challenge has moved from extracting data to efficiently prompting, validating, and deploying LLM-powered extraction workflows, with strong recommendations for chain-of-thought reasoning, citation logging, and human-in-the-loop validation for production use.
- Hybrid Solutions: There’s consensus that the most robust solutions combine LLMs, classical/OCR methods, custom fine-tuning, and human validation, especially to offer service-level guarantees to clients.
- Consistency & Reliability: Many note issues with consistency—even with the same model and document, results can vary depending on model updates, bilingual complexities, and sampling parameters, making recurring process adjustments necessary when models change.
- Commodity Concerns: The commoditization of LLMs means that bespoke improvements alone are not a sustainable moat; open-source alternatives and cost efficiency (in compute and workflow) matter greatly for long-term success.
- Pragmatism vs. Complexity: LLM-centric toolchains are “good enough” for many small-scale needs but are less suited for high-accuracy or large-volume deployments, which benefit more from hybrid or deterministic approaches and rigor in establishing accuracy benchmarks.
- Cost-Benefit Table: A comparative cost and throughput table highlights dramatic differences between services (e.g., Gemini 2.0 Flash can process around 6,000 pages per dollar, while OpenAI 4o processes about 200, and Anthropic’s model about 100).
- Future Outlook: There’s debate over the long-term value of building custom pipelines as opposed to leveraging constantly-improving managed cloud solutions. For low to moderate scale, simplicity and speed-to-deployment may outweigh intricate local setups, but at very high scale, in-house pipelines can offer superior cost efficiency over time.
Additional Insights
- Data Handling & Privacy: Enterprises must pay attention to how data is handled and stored, ensuring privacy, auditability, and compliance, with options for workspace separation, retention policy, and no data sharing for sensitive applications.
- Challenges in Table Extraction: While LLMs can extract and even reflow tables, handling complex or messy layouts is still problematic and no one solution fits all contexts.
- Prompt Engineering: For best results, the prompt should specify desired outputs (like JSON schemas) without complex engineering, but more advanced reasoning and citation inclusion in prompt design can further boost extraction reliability.
- Vendor Lock-in Risks: Reliance on closed cloud APIs introduces risks around service continuity, model drift, and potential price increases, making open-source and local alternatives attractive in some scenarios. Overall, the thread advocates for a flexible, use-case-driven approach—evaluating document processing needs against trade-offs of accuracy, speed, cost, scalability, privacy, and future-proofing in the rapidly evolving AI/LLM ecosystem.
Important Know Hows
Best Practices
For best results:
- Rotate pages to the correct orientation before uploading.
- Avoid blurry pages.
- If using a single page, place the text prompt after the page.
PDF Payloads < 20MB
- Always use the File API when the total request size (including the files, text prompt, system instructions, etc.) is larger than 20MB.
base64 encoded documents or directly uploading locally stored docs
Gemini supports a maximum of 1,000 document pages. Each document page is equivalent to 258 tokens.
larger pages are scaled down to a maximum resolution of 3072x3072 while preserving their original aspect ratio, while smaller pages are scaled up to 768x768 pixels. There is no cost reduction for pages at lower sizes, other than bandwidth, or performance improvement for pages at higher resolution.
However, document vision only meaningfully understands PDFs. Other types will be extracted as pure text, and the model won’t be able to interpret what we see in the rendering of those files. Any file-type specifics like charts, diagrams, HTML tags, Markdown formatting, etc., will be lost.
Packages/APIs/References used
Code Snippets
fetch a PDF from a URL and convert it to bytes for processing
from google import genai
from google.genai import types
import httpx
client = genai.Client()
doc_url = "https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10089234/1/343019_3_art_0_py4t4l_convrt.pdf"
# Retrieve and encode the PDF byte
doc_data = httpx.get(doc_url).content
prompt = "Summarize this document"
response = client.models.generate_content(
model="gemini-2.5-flash",
contents=[
types.Part.from_bytes(
data=doc_data,
mime_type='application/pdf',
),
prompt])
print(response.text)Large PDFs from URLs
Use the File API to simplify uploading and processing large PDF files from URLs:
from google import genai
from google.genai import types
import io
import httpx
client = genai.Client()
long_context_pdf_path = "https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/static/history/alsj/a17/A17_FlightPlan.pdf"
# Retrieve and upload the PDF using the File API
doc_io = io.BytesIO(httpx.get(long_context_pdf_path).content)
sample_doc = client.files.upload(
# You can pass a path or a file-like object here
file=doc_io,
config=dict(
mime_type='application/pdf')
)
prompt = "Summarize this document"
response = client.models.generate_content(
model="gemini-2.5-flash",
contents=[sample_doc, prompt])
print(response.text)Passing multiple files
from google import genai
import io
import httpx
client = genai.Client()
doc_url_1 = "https://arxiv.org/pdf/2312.11805"
doc_url_2 = "https://arxiv.org/pdf/2403.05530"
# Retrieve and upload both PDFs using the File API
doc_data_1 = io.BytesIO(httpx.get(doc_url_1).content)
doc_data_2 = io.BytesIO(httpx.get(doc_url_2).content)
sample_pdf_1 = client.files.upload(
file=doc_data_1,
config=dict(mime_type='application/pdf')
)
sample_pdf_2 = client.files.upload(
file=doc_data_2,
config=dict(mime_type='application/pdf')
)
prompt = "What is the difference between each of the main benchmarks between these two papers? Output these in a table."
response = client.models.generate_content(
model="gemini-2.5-flash",
contents=[sample_pdf_1, sample_pdf_2, prompt])
print(response.text)
